Milton Keynes Broadband Action Group

Do you have a 01908 number but can't get broadband? Contact us!

WiFi Mesh in MK

In a recent email to the group members I reported:

A Wi-Fi mesh is being installed in Milton Keynes:

“Milton Keynes will have the largest continuous area of free wireless broadband connectivity in the UK,”

“The 21st Century wireless Milton Keynes project has been in planning for 18 months and will now network Central Milton Keynes absolutely free! This is the largest continuous area to have free Wi-Fi access in the UK to date,” said Grant Seeley, director of investment at Milton Keynes Partnership."

Read more here.

What you think to this idea? Do you think having a city-wide Wi-Fi mesh a good idea? Do you want to become "a node"?

Are you concerned with interference to other Wi-Fi networks?

Replies from members...

Having had time to compose a suitable response to your earlier E-mail and after consulting the people who are in the Know.

Regarding your question about interference to other Wi-Fi networks.

1 WiFi has 13 channels nominally but conventionally only four widely separated channels are used. So it is a scarce resource. The MKBC proposal may indeed affect existing usages - especially in CMK where there are many businesses with existing services. How it affects them is, I guess, the point of your question.

2 First generation devices had a fixed broadcast range of 250 metres (if you had a 250m mast in the middle of the fens!) and you couldn't reuse that channel within 500 metres of the first one. Fortunately, this is no longer[1] true and modern hubs are adaptive: they attenuate their signal until each can no longer hear the other. So, in principle, two or more multi-modal nets should not produce radio interference with each other, but may do so in other ways. Specifically, a node that was originally in range of base-station A may suddenly find itself in the range of new base-station B - which is a big problem if A and B are in two separate management domains.

3 The 2.4Ghz band is licence-free. There is no regulatory authority that says who can use which channel where. So if everybody in neighbouring houses or apartments in a block all use the same default settings (typically failing also to set up an identity), you will definitely get problems. This is becoming an increasingly common problem, especially with a new type of base station that sells itself on its ability to penetrate heavy brick-work. Specifically, it is not obvious to me how MKBC could expand this particular[2] initiative city wide: there simply aren't enough channels to go round. If I stick a pin somewhere at random in a map of Milton Keynes, I have no way of knowing whether I'll pick up an MKBC service or my next door neighbour's.

=======
[1] BUT nobody went round to collect up the old ones, so there may still be some unsocial units out there.

[2] The first rumour I heard was that MKBC was going to get a WiMax transmitter. This proposal could be instead of that, but it could also be as well as it.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_network and be aware that most casual use of the term "wireless mesh" is inaccurate. We have a lot of wireless base stations on [the OU] campus, but we don't have a mesh: they interlink via the wired backbone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimax

Regards

Bill

[I do know that MKC are involved in a WiMax trail. Unfortunately, I can say no more than what I've pasted here.
MKC are not involved with the Wi-Fi network we're discussing on this page.]

I think this is fantastic and would love the here more and what do you need to do to be a node ?

Regards

Ken

A citywide mesh would be a great thing. It'd be great if the consortium pushing this could maybe target the estates that are stuffed for fast access and take up the slack.

The one thing about wireless is, if the connection is symmetrical, gamers such as myself would find it of great interest. Upload bandwidth is as important as download for us.

I wouldn't want a totally open system. I'd be more than happy to pay £30 for the equivalent of an 8Mb connection with say a peak time (8am-11pm) Traffic limit of 30G a month and say 50-100G per month for the rest of the time. I see no reason why I'd be the only one especially on selected slow bandwidth estates. WiMax would be a very good idea for that I suppose. We can dream....

If your meeting these guys, please wish them good luck from myself. I saw the bloke running it interviewed the other day and I hope they can take up the slack in the rest of the city - there's a lot of us who'd love to throw our money at these guys for the kind of Service BT and NTL don't want to provide.

One last thing, have NTL ever commented on the cable system? They seem to just be ignoring anyone who asks questions.
[Even poor Tessa gets ignored!]

Cheers

Jon

It's like a dream come true. I would love to become a node!!!!!!!!

Regards

Susan

This looks like a great idea and I am keen to support it.

It is important, however, that this initiative does not distract the authorities from addressing the continued need for high-speed Broadband (not just entry-level 512 Broadband), across the entire borough.

John

Wi-Fi mesh sounds great and I wonder if it might ultimately be a way to get faster broadband to those who might not be able to get it, although it sounds like much of MK can now.

On a different matter, I'm in Loughton and although I feel quite close to the centre, train station etc. the routing of our phone cable is apparently quite long and looks like we'll 'never' be able to get more than about 1MB/s (maybe I should count myself lucky!). Do you know if there are any plans to re-route people with long cable runs ? I can't believe in say 5 or 10 years we'll still be in the same position...probably all be wireless by then which is why this email was of interest!

Regards,

Paul

I would like to know how and if we qualify to use the service. As I understand it you have to live / work within a certain radius of the centre of Milton Keynes.

Regards

Ernest
[The service will be launched 1st August 2006.]

Central Milton Keynes is a far cry from "city-wide". I won't hold my breath waiting for the nodes to get to Grange Farm.

It will likely cause interference, but it should be manageable if they publish their channel numbers, stick to 'b' (no 'g'), and don't go so dense that they steal half the channels at any given spot.

If they provide faster connections than I can get from an ISP, more power to them! But to do that en masse, they would probably need to install 'g', which means that they would take most of the available channels. So it is slow and 'b' where we have our own faster connections, or fast and 'g', where we get rid of our own ISPs.

Best,

Charles

I would be interested in a node, to supply my small industrial estate that we have talked about before.

Please keep plugging my case.

Or if I could get more BT lines from the same exchange that I get the 512k from, i.e. Woburn Sands, I could bond a few together, which would be suffice.

John

I will be watching my BB connection to see if there is added interference from the Wi-Fi area in CMK (I'm sad I live about 1 mile from the railway station and can't receive it here!).

Of course I would like free BB - if it's reliable and trouble-free! I have received a much improved connection since BT came round and installed a box to correct my line (a new little BT box on the wall). They said it was 'borderline good enough' and that was the problem. I do now receive a fast BB signal (Virgin are planning to increase to 2 Mb but I don't think they've done this yet).

Will let you know if I experience any problems by next week.

Thanks for being so effective on our behalf. I've found that having a group to take my whinges about BB has been useful and supportive.

Gill

Since I was part of the original outreach trial for Broadband, and am still only receiving 512kbps ADSL, I welcome any initiative to proliferate high bandwidth services in MK – what real choice do we have other than Wi-Fi? BT are unlikely to install a network, C&W certainly won’t and NTL are unlikely to either – Hobson’s choice I believe!

Do you have any idea of timescales for the project – availability of broadband services for domestic users?

Regards,

David
[The service will be launched 1st August 2006.]

Just a quick and rather pointless email to let you know I think the Britezone free Wi-Fi is a fantastic idea.

Not so sure if those scamming Starbucks and BT Openzone places will be so happy, but who gives a damn :o)

Keep up the good work buddy,

Lee

Thank you for your recent email regarding Wi-Fi Mesh in Milton Keynes. To be quite honest I am not clear what this is all about although I have read a report in the local press regarding the subject. I am a home user living in Bletchley and BT are my broadband provider. Will the MK Wi-Fi Mesh be made available to me and if so when will this be?

Incidentally, I have had no problems with my broadband connection since you contacted BT on behalf.

Thanks and regards

Peter

I think Wi-Fi is a great idea for MK. One of our company directors has been unsuccessful getting broadband to his property situated in rural Hertfordshire. Fortunately other villagers had negotiated a deal with a small supplier to provide wireless broadband and we piggybacked off their successful implementation.

I like the idea of free wireless broadband for the city centre. Whilst I already have broadband over my phone line at home, I often would like to be able to use my wireless laptop when I'm up in the shopping centre on weekends. I can't really justify the cost of a 3G card for these occasions.

What does "becoming a node" entail? If it means having a wireless access point installed on the side of the roof, then I would be willing. I am in Rowle Close, Stantonbury.

Regards,

Colin

Considering the problems I have been having with Orange with them cancelling my account instead of sending a mac code last week and having to wait another seven days before the lock is taken off my phone number so I can subscribe to another ISP...a citywide Wi-Fi sounds a great idea!

They are talking about it being completely free? how would they be able to keep it running without people paying for access?

As for any interference to existing Wi-Fi systems, as there are 13 channels (it is 13 isn't it?) I'm sure someone somewhere would have a problem, but its an interesting idea!

Paul

[Unlike normal radio channels (as in broadcast radio, TV, marine, amateur...) the Wi-Fi channels overlap with each over. Any interference is sorted out "higher up the stack".]

What you think to this idea? Good.

Do you think having a city-wide Wi-Fi mesh a good idea? Yes.

Do you want to become "a node"? I'd be interested, can I have more details please .

Thanks

Ben
[The service will be launched 1st August 2006.]

I think the idea to have a citywide Wi-Fi Network is great and I would support it in any way I can.

I would also welcome the idea of pushing it out to the residents of MK and would quite happily pay to use this service (at a reasonable cost of course).

Firstly I have always been disappointed with Milton Keynes for their failure to provide a competitive broadband service via cable or otherwise.

I have enquired over the years to MK authorities as to when or if they would be supplying a reliable broadband service to the residents of MK.

The official reply at the time was that the improvements to the grid could not take place due to lack of funding.

I already enjoy the freedom that a wi-fi network can offer. On campus at the Open University we have a campus wide net. This network is password protected and only available to staff and students.

Regards

Bill

I would welcome a means of faster Broadband than 512, so perhaps this is it. Just saw a mention of it on the news.

Hilary

I think it is great new that MK is going to city-wide free wireless Wi-Fi.

I don't think it will interfere with other systems if its set up correctly, and I would be happy to be a node

Regards

David

Whatever, progress is made. The easier it is to access the net the better it will be in the long run.

My only concern is with security - I am sure that this has been thought through - but one breach in this that leads to negative publicity could jeopardise a lot of good work.

I am willing to consider being a "node" ?? Naturally this will depend on what this entails.

Regards

Nitin

Links

Milton Keynes Broadband Home

Activities

If you live in Milton Keynes, and want Broadband, let us know!