Milton Keynes Broadband Action Group

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Questions for BT

There's was meeting with BT on Friday the 14th November 2003.

We set BT the following questions: (Read the answers here.)

Abbreviated Set...

  1. Identification of problem areas in MK. (Street level, not just estate level.)
  2. Will BT propose a solution to MK's Broadband problems? If so, how soon?
  3. Will any "fixes" involve funding from other parties?
  4. A 65dB planning rule is rumoured. Is this true?
  5. How accurate is the BT web based line checker?
  6. If a BT engineer measures a customer's actual cable length, using equipment such as a Time Domain Reflectometer, why can't the BT web based line checker be updated forthwith?
  7. If a resident is prepared to have engineering tests made on their lines, how do they approach BT?
  8. What alternatives are there to getting a line length tested?
  9. Exchange area naming confuses people. The name refers to a different local area name. Stop it!
  10. When will I be getting broadband in <estate name> ?
  11. Can we get hold of the facts as to where the cabling actually goes?
  12. Is there any point in having a second line installed it the hope that it would be connected to a nearer exchange?
  13. Is there any point in having a second line installed, contingent on ADSL being available? Should ADSL not be available do I get the 2nd line removed at no charge.
  14. Do the telephone numbers themselves give a clue as to how the cable is routed and to what exchange?
  15. I always thought the UK telephone system was a world leader. How do we compare worldwide?
  16. Could BT make the price of ISDN/Midband fairer?
  17. Old village estates that used to be served by the old country exchanges (Loughton, Milton Keynes Village) are badly served. There is some clumsy transition jointing going on. The cables would have be lain to allow a quick seamless "switchover" one cold winter's afternoon, fifteen years ago. Can't these cables be re-run? Can't this be remedied?
  18. Can I order a telephone line from a specific telephone exchange?
  19. BT have given Milton Keynes special attention. Will BT extend this support to other towns in the country?
  20. I know this is a Broadband campaign, but some of us in MK can't even get ISDN (Midband, Home Highway). Has BT got plans for people wanting ISDN?
  21. Will BT implement a wireless broadband service in MK?
  22. Does having telephone extensions wired inside your house increase your line length/loss?
  23. What is BT doing to improve the lines of communication between their various internal teams?
  24. BT recently invested heavily in downgrading Monkston's TPON. When will BT upgrade / reroute estates that are considered "too far from the exchange". With the new cables in place Monkston is now approx 2.8km from Bradwell Abbey, whereas Middleton the estate next door and geographical closer to Bradwell Abbey (Fishermead) is still in excess of 6km.
  25. From our group we are aware of approx 60 people that have taken up ADSL service in Monkston. BT laid 250 pairs of cable. How feasible is it to route other estates from the spare capacity in Monkston.
  26. Is there any plans for BT to adapt the new ADSL2 specification - a longer reach (7-7.5 km variable speed) version of ADSL.
 
 

Members' Questions...

The above set of questions are distilled from the following:

I have a question on line checking:
I have been given a method to check a line distance from the exchange:

Dial the "BT LINE TEST and RINGBACK FACILITY" then 3,1,2, then put down your phone, it will call you back with the distance info from the exchange

How accurate is this test ?

Bill
 
I don't know if its a question that's been asked lately or not:

Why do BT name the area "Bradwell Abbey" when the exchange is in Fishermead?
Similarly:
Why do BT name the area "Shenley Church End" when the exchange is in Emerson Valley?

Glenn
 
Are BT giving any serious consideration to offering people a waiver to sign for Broadband connections over the current 60dB limit?

I'm not so sure its great idea for "non technical" users, so would be interested to know what sort of waivers BT would consider for this.

When will I be getting broadband in Kents Hill?

Gareth
 

I live in Bolbeck Park in a house built in 1986 and have a phone number starting with "6" routed to Bradwell Abbey; according to the BT checker I am too far away from the exchange for broadband.

A few years ago I had a second line installed, but subsequently removed because I no longer needed it. This number started with a "2". I have recently been wondering if this meant it was connected to Newport Pagnell (and thus probably would have been near enough for broadband). (I have entered some friends' phone numbers into the checker that start with a "2" & are in nearby Willen, and they appear to be OK for broadband.)

I suppose my question is this: for people like myself living in the "borderlands" between Bradwell Abbey & Newport Pagnell, is there any point in having a second line installed it the hope that it would be connected to the nearer exchange? Can we get hold of the facts as to where the cabling actually goes?

Janet
 
Not so much a question as a general statement - or two, to illustrate how poor the service(?) offered by BT really is!

I have an apartment in Spain in a tiny village seven miles from the nearest (small) town.

I recently applied for a telephone line on a Thursday morning it was installed and working before noon on the Saturday.

The installation and running costs are less than BT and the telephones supplied are considerably better i.e. built in autodialler, answering machine, memory, rolodex, date and time, one button access to emergency services, email, SMS and lots more!

I get higher speeds even on dial-up Internet access than I can get in MK!

How far can Bradwell Village be from Wolverton? - surely less than the five kilometres supposedly required!

In Spain I can have broadband on demand. Furthermore the statements are sent to my MK address. If I have a query I can call Telefonica and request an English speaking operator without charge.

And people still say Spain is a backward country!

Sorry, I do have a question. When will BT join the 20th (sic) century?

Bill
 

Could you please ask BT what they propose for people who live in areas whose local exchanges are broadband enabled yet cannot receive broadband due to line quality or length?

As you know I work for BT, and find it humorous that broadband is supposedly the most important item on BT's agenda, yet there seems to be no one available to speak to that actually knows anything about it. The sales staff have very little knowledge on the subject, and many BT staff refuse to even speak to me about the situation because I work for BT... (I have to order online, and am therefore unable to get help over the phone!).

Do BT propose that if a person lives in an area whose exchange is ADSL enabled, yet lives too far from the exchange, that broadband is simply not an option?

Could they not make the price of ISDN/Midband fairer? At the moment I am paying AOL £15.99 a month, it doesn't seem fair that for £4 I could receive broadband speed.

Lee
 

What are the realistic possibilities for receiving broadband in Bolbeck Park?

I believe I would be on the edge of the new capacity, but still receive 'no possibility' messages when I test.

Bill
 

If it is only 4.8km to drive to Woburn Sands (going the long way), why is there 6.8km of cable between my house and the exchange?

The figure was quoted by BT customer services. What hope is there for me here, I need at least two ADSL standard downgrades before I can get even a slow ADSL.

I considering moving house, my girlfriend and I have businesses to run.

Neil, Wavendon Gate
 
We desperately need broadband ASAP. There are 3 medical students, a doctor and a PhD living in a house within 1.5 Miles of the MK city centre and we don't have Broadband. What a shame for MK (or is it to BT)?

Ivan, Neath Hill
 
I live in Two Mile Ash. I have now been after broadband for several months and have been unable to get it despite numerous attempts.  I have tried after the new 6km rule and still cannot get it.  I am currently connected to the Stony Stratford exchange and would like to know if there are any plans to increase the current distance of 6km from the exchange so it will become available in my area.

Chris
 
What are they going to do about the problem areas and when?

Francis.
 
How easy is it to be connected to another exchange that has Broadband?

I'm currently connected to the Bradwell Abbey exchange, yet I live in Willen, and it's possible that the Newport Pagnell exchange is nearer to me which has broadband access.

Allan
 
We need Identification of the problem areas in MK down to street Level, not just estate.

Also some reasons for the problems would be nice, then we can focus on sorting these out. It's all very well BT saying Bradwell Common can't get broadband, it's a known problem area. Why is it a problem area, is there anything that can be done to fix these problems?
Is the cable routed via Glasgow? :) Is it a problem with aluminium/copper cable combinations?
Or something else?

Jas
 
Until the system is sorted out would BT be prepared to supply the BT ISDN highway system at the same price as broadband so I can at least increase my connection speed and  be able to use my phone whilst using my VPN?

Paul
 
I have a question and just something I would like to say to BT via this group if you would be so kind as to pass my comments on.

I live in Maynard Close Bradwell Village and recently has a BT engineer at my house looking at a problem which he repaired. While he was there I asked him about Broad band and the new 6.0 Km reach. He said he would quite happily test the line for me ( measure the distance as he did not have the equipment to measure the noise loss or what ever it is called ). He used a hand held device and a lap top and both came out with the same figure (5.91 Km). Of course when he told me that I was over the moon, I rang BT immediately after using their online checker ( which told me I was too far away), only to be told the same thing by the person I spoke to.

I then said that BT had extended their reach and would like to know why they thought I was too far away. The person I was speaking to told me this was incorrect.

I asked them if they had access to the internet in which "yes" was the response.

I then asked if they could check a website for me, the response "yes, of course" came, I gave them the address www.BT.com, there was a pause and then "Sir, that is our company website", I told him that I knew this, I referred him to the NEWS option at the top of the page and then the latest news at the top of that  page where he read about the new 6.0km reach.

He then said "Well, what would you like to do?"

At this point I was starting to boil, I explained that I would like to speak to someone that could tell me if I was 5.91km from the exchange, why I couldn't have Broadband ( I understand that this is the only thing that is checked  from their offices and that more detailed checks need to be carried out by an engineer).

I was left of hold for 45 minutes with no one coming back to be, and I couldn't do anything as I had not taken the person's name ( I have learnt my lesson).

So, the question is: Who can explain to me why BT think I'm too far away, and would they send an engineer out to my property and have the checks carried out. I am willing to pay (as long as the cost isn't a made up figure).

I await BT's response with baited breath.

Thanks

John
 
I have a question, relevant to my locality of Woughton Park:

Woughton Park used to be on the Milton Keynes [Village] exchange and broadband was available.  A neighbour, 3 doors away, is a user but when I also attempted to sign up I was told this was impossible, as our houses are more than 5.5 km from the exchange.  It then emerged that Woughton Park has been moved enbloc to Bradwell Abbey exchange which is, correctly, a greater distance away, all apart from my neighbour who still has his line to MK exchange.

This is not helpful to those who might want broadband, not does it seem to aid BT's proclaimed objective of encouraging broadband use.  However

1)    I have queried with BT what might be done to assist people in my position.  These approaches have been ignored

2)    Before hearing of your organisation, I have attempted to set up a local group through the BT website.  However this seems not to be possible, the site claiming that MK is already broadband-enabled.

Hence my question: if BT can move whole communities from one exchange to another (without notice, and to their disadvantage), can they not facilitate broadband access by moving individuals back 'within range'?

Many thanks.

Geoff
 
Is it true that Broadband may be available by requesting a separate BT line from another exchange ?

(In my case, switching the line from Stony Stratford Exchange to Shenley Exchange - also, would BT assist with the additional expenditure incurred ?)

Ken
 
How accurate is the web based line checker? Bradwell Abbey is really Fishermead. Drawing a 6km ring around exchange puts a lot of us as able to get it.

My sister in-law in Springfield has had a second line put in. Her first number was no good on the checker, the new second line is just fine!

David
 
BT have a special point of contact for Milton Keynes. This is effectively an acknowledgement that BT knows MK is a special case, with its young affluent population.

Will BT be expanding their support for other areas in the country?

Sean, Doncaster
 
All that I require from BT, is a date that I am able to have any line that is faster than the standard.

I have been in arguments with their staff many a time about this. Most of the time, they say that  I am able to have mid band, isdn, but when it comes to the crunch, "Oops sorry not available in your area."
 
And yet they are the people that approach us about having these services, get us all worked up about having the fast service, and then say we are unable to have it.

BT have got to be one of the worst companies that I have come across.

George
 
With my normal BT line I never managed to get more than 42kbps.

This is bad.

All queries for ADSL were refused so far due to the bad line.
If they cannot provide broadband, is there anything BT can do to improve the line?

Kai,  Loughton
 
Will installing a second telephone line make a difference to the distance and quality of the line so that broadband can be installed? 

My next door neighbour ordered a second line and has broadband. He's happy to supply both numbers for testing and for a BT engineer to come in analyse our situation.

At the moment, I'm getting nowhere with an answer and cannot get a BT engineer in to look at my line. 

Please help.

Charlotte
 
Tell BT we don't want to know about problems, just solutions and we want them fast!

Kim
 
I live in Ridgmont, Deanshanger which is part of the Milton Keynes telephone area.

I cannot get Broadband as I am told that I live too far away from the exchange. My son lives 100 yards away from my house and he gets Broadband  just fine. However, my telephone number begins with 56 and his number begins 26.

Will BT ever be able to get me Broadband?

Trevor, Deanshanger.
 
Does having telephone extensions wired inside your house reduce your chances of getting ADSL?
Does it increase your line length/loss?
What about equipment connected to your line - phones, modems, sky boxes etc?

Jas
 
What is BT doing to improve the lines of communication between their various teams?
Why is the line checker not providing accurate information?

I recently had a new PST line installed so that I could order Broadband. The new line was checked and I was advised by BT Client Services that: "Broadband is not available in your area. Your telephone exchange is Bradwell Abbey

We're sorry that even though broadband (ADSL) is available at your exchange, you're too far away from the exchange for us to provide the service. 

On referring this matter to Serena I have now been informed by Jayne that the information that she received was incorrect and my address maybe within the prescribed limits.

My order for ADSL has now been resubmitted.

Michael
 
When we first moved in to out current house in Walnut Tree, BT offered to connect us to Broadband using the exchange in Bletchley as we were to far away from the Bradwell Abbey exchange. We didn't  take up offer at the time.

A few months back I rang BT Sales and was told it was not a problem if we wanted Broadband and we would be given a second line connected to Bletchley and we could drop our old line.

A few days later I received a call from BT Engineers, informing me that it was to much trouble to connect the second line to the Bletchley
Exchange and it was my problem for deciding to live in Milton Keynes and if I wanted Broadband I should move out of Milton Keynes!

When are we I going to get an apology?
When are we I going to have Broadband?

Doug and Kevin
 
I live in Bow Brickhill, and have tried/failed three times to get broadband installed. Each time the story is the same: BT say that the line is Amber status and then it transpires the line is poor quality. Thus no broadband.

My question is: Why do I have to pay the same rental and call charges for my poor quality line as someone with a good line. Surely if we are getting a third rate service our line rental should reflect this?

I would like to try and have another line installed but have been told by BT that its not possible to guarantee the line quality. And neither can we choose the exchange that we connect to - we are closer to the Bletchley exchange but we are connected to MK exchange?

Bernard
 
Will BT be giving serious consideration to getting Broadband provisioned in the "Black Hole" of Great Linford?

Ian
 
I am too far from the exchange for full speed Broadband.
Is it possible for BT to setup a Broadband installation that is slightly slower but able to reach a greater distance?

Ian
 
I have tried twice to have broadband - the first time was prior to the change to 6.0km line length and was refused on the basis of being to far away from the Wolverton exchange.  The second time was when the line length increased to 6.0km, yet again I was told that I am to far away from the exchange.  The distance from my house into Wolverton itself when I drive there is approx 5km,  (well past the location of the exchange) - now each time I am told thank you for your interest but broadband is unavailable despite my exchange being enabled.

As I appear to be within the 6km range why is it not possible to have broadband access ?
When if at all will broadband become available ? how many more years will I have to wait ? Will I live long enough to see the day !!!!
Is it possible that I can get broadband but have not stamped my feet and shouted loud enough ?
Because I use NTLWorld for internet access at the moment I am being giving the cold shoulder because I only pay BT line rental ?

Does the NTL box on my phone point have some effect on the line test results ?

I note that on the successes page someone from Lundholme on Heelands has actually got broadband access during October - do you know any history of the success as Lundholme cannot be much further away from me than 500-600mtrs

With best regards

David, Scardale, Heelands
 
From my old BT days I was amazed that there are only 2 exchanges serving our end off MK, Bletchley which serves all the way to Old Farm Park and Bradwell Abbey exchange (Fishermead).

When I was at BT line concentrators and pair gain devices were used to serve brand new estates because they was not enough "E" side cabling to serve all the new houses.....so the questions are:

Is the size of MK out grown the 2 exchanges feeding south MK and forcing bad planning (distances etc) a root cause?
Does pair gain devices allow ADSL to run ........for example 2 houses working over 1 pair of copper? [No]

Gary
 
To enhance the following question from the list:
"Will BT propose a solution to MK's Broadband problems? If so, how soon?"

- I would ask BT for specific implementation dates and reasons why they are neglecting MK areas such as Bolbeck Park.

Chris
 
- why doesn't BT install signal amplifiers on long lines ?

- can BT use mobile phone network for broadband ?

- can BT use the cable TV network for broadband ?

- What are BT's plans (WITH DATES) for providing broadband to all its Milton Keynes customers ?

- can customers be reconnected to a nearer exchange ?

Lindsay
 
Will BT work in conjunction with the council to provide service to areas or houses which fail the NTL line of site tests?

Chris
 
Great Linford is made up of several housing "estates" along the St Leger Drive 'ribbon, as well as the old village of Great Linford and Marsh Drive housing areas.  I've heard different stories from people in "Great Linford" as to BT's replies to their "distance from the nearest broadband exchange".

I live on Hills Close, adjacent to the H3 Monks Way, when are BT going to upgrade the cabling here to enable broadband for me and others along this housing line?

Richard
 
1) BT recently invested heavily in downgrading Monkston's TPON. When will BT upgrade / reroute estates that are considered "to far from the exchange". With the new cables in place Monkston is now approx 2.8 KM from Bradwell Abbey, whereas Middleton the estate next door and geographical closer to Bradwell Abbey (Fishermead) is still in excess of 6 KM.

2) From our group we are aware of approx 60 people that have taken up ADSL service in Monkston and as I understand it BT laid 250 pairs of cable. How feasible is it to route other estates from the spare capacity in Monkston.

Colin
 
I live in Newton Longville (outskirts of MK) where I can't get ADSL (or ISDN) and suspect most of the village (1500 people) can get it either. My house is about 6.5km from the Bletchley exchange. Are there any plans to help the village out? It is a reasonably well off large village so I suspect there would be a lot of interest....

Are there any nearer exchanges with ADSL that the village could connect to instead of the Bletchley exchange? is this possible?

Is there any plans for BT to adapt the new ADSL2 specification - a longer reach (7-7.5 km variable speed) version of ADSL that has been in the news recently?

Barry
 
I have just closed my account with AOL Broadband as I keep loosing the signal and ending up being logged off the network.
Is BT going to build a new exchange on the east side of Milton Keynes as Bradwell Abbey is too far away for a reliable service?

John
 
The BT Web based line checker advises that areas of Walnut Tree situated less than 4Km from the serving Fishermead "Bradwell Abbey" exchange cannot get broadband as "the length of the telephone line between you and the exchange is too long for ADSL broadband." How is this explained in relation to the 5.5/6.0km. 

Properties in Walnut Tree 1Km further West i.e. further away from Fishermead are broadband enabled.

How is this explained?

John
 
You have proof that people are moving house to obtain Broadband. I'm moving in to Shenley Brook End from Wavendon Gate

Jeff
 
Areas like the east side of Willen appear to be getting line-check distances to the exchange of 8km or so and hence fail all ADSL line quality tests.  When will more direct and/or better quality cable be laid to shorten the distance to the exchange and improve SNR drop-off to allow ADSL to be delivered? There is a large community of people waiting for ADSL in Willen!

What assurances do we have that BT will not drag its feet for revenue reasons when looking at how to deliver ADSL east Willen?  There appears to be an advantage to BT to keep us on the much higher ISDN monthly rental and call charges package (mine is about £180 per month as I work from home) to avoid us moving to ADSL and paying them far less each month?  Do they guarantee to ignore issues like this when assessing their plans for Willen and other similar areas?

Paul
 
I just find it incredible that in this day and age, the reasons why broadband is not available in Kents Hill are quite pathetic.  I read on the www.bb4mk.org website that broadband is now available in Monkston.  Is this a recent action?  Because two friends of mine moved to Monkston in May / June time and they were told by BT that broadband was not available there, this in itself is really unacceptable because Monkston is one of the newest estates in MK and BT should have made the incorporation of ADSL a priority.  If the incorporation of ADSL into Monkston is recent then why did BT not make the same changes in Kents Hill and surrounding areas as well?

When will I be getting broadband in Kents Hill?

I hope this gives you enough fire power to make BT change their mind, roll on the days of fast connection!

Rich
 
How is it that Easynet can connect my house to broadband where BT cannot?
 
Because of Local Loop Unbundling apparently THEY CAN...However, they charge £260 to connect and then £59 per month for the connection.
 
Does this then mean the monopoly has been broken to prevent BT profiteering but has been handed to others?

Neil
 
Are BT willing to implement a wireless broadband service, like NTL are, in the MK area ?

Ken
 

Read about our previous meeting.

February 2004's questions.

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