The BB4MK members are after any news regarding the NTL trial outcome.

1, There's concern that there's no mention of the NTL trail on MKWEB. / The council have gone quiet.
2, Will NTL "go for it"?
3, How much will the service cost?

Would you kindly give a recap that I can issue in this week's newsletter.

MKC reply:

1. The site was recently updated with news about the trial www.mkweb.co.uk/broadband

2. NTL will give us no indication about when the decision will be taken other than by the 31st July. If they do decide not to proceed then a notice period will be issued to the current trialists.

3. If it does go live it will have the same rates as the NTL: cable modem offering for the different bandwidths. www.ntlhome.co.uk/ntl_internet/index.asp

NDO seems to be ready to sign me up for the trial even though I have HH.
Of course, they haven't yet accepted the order, giving BT the opportunity to intervene and stop the process.

The conversation has been:
--- Charles says
I understand that HH users will need to change back to analogue POTS in order to participate in the trial. Apparently BT will charge £50 for the conversion to POTS. It isn't clear what will happen if time remains on the minimum 12-month contract (do you know)?

One significant concern regards what will happen if ADSL does not work on my line. In this case I will be stuck with analog dialup, which isn't where I want to be. Will my HH installation be restored? At what cost? Can the quality of the ISDN signal be used as a predictor of success, avoiding wasting everyone's time if the ADSL installation simply won't work?

I am willing to pay for the disconnection of HH (but unhappy about it!) and for the trial. I am significantly less willing to pay to disconnect, pay for an unsuccessful trial, and then pay to reconnect HH.

Any info you have on HH conversions will be appreciated.
--- NDO replies
HomeHighway users are not recommended for the trial as:
BT will charge a removal fee of £50 and any outstanding amounts to complete the contract.

There is also no guarantee of being able to have ADSL, it can be an expensive test; although BT will restore the line back to HH if the ADSL experiment fails.

The trial concludes in September and we expect it to be sucessful (having seen the lab test results) so, based on this you could wait until then and then it would be a "standard" ADSL order.
--- Charles replies
Given that BT will restore the line back to HH (at no further cost I assume), I am willing to take the risk. My contract is over in June, and I will need to pay the £50 regardless of when I make the change.

Is NDO willing to take the order? FWIW, I am a current NDO un-metered anytime 128 customer
--- NDO replies
Just email your details to mktrial@ndo.com and we will add you to the list.
--- END

BT has refused to allow NDO to accept my order for the ADSL trial because I have home highway. According to NDO, BT said I could participate in the trial if:
1) I contact BT to have my HH installation converted to analogue. I pay for this, and there is no return without paying installation again.
2) after conversion, I apply for the trial.
3) however, because the conversion will take weeks, there will be no space left in the trial (probably) leading to...
4) I will have paid significant sums of money to be stuck with *nothing*. No HH, no ADSL.

BT will *not* allow NDO to enter a conversion order (as can normally occur). BT will *not* allow NDO to reserve a 'trial slot'. As far as I am concerned, BT can jump off a high cliff.

NDO's advice is the obvious one - wait until the trial is over, then place the order. It will be a 'normal' order at that point, assuming a successful trial.

I am tempted to shut down my HH installation simply to deny BT the revenue. Unfortunately, I don't think that they would notice.

Something is funny with the database.

A test of my number indicates that I am too far away. A test of my landlord's number indicates (sort of) OK. My landlord lives 15 meters from me. Our lines enter the property together. They are split at a junction box on the corner of my landlord's house, where two lines go up to the main entry point of the 'big house' and one line goes to me.

It is extremely difficult to believe that the extra 15 meters between the two junction boxes is significant. In addition, yesterday the landlord's number tested red. After that test, they ordered ADSL from an ISP on the trial; the order was accepted by the ISP (but perhaps not BT - we are waiting).

It is worth noting that I have Home Highway, which might affect my answer from the database. My landlord has standard PSTN lines.

It is possible that BT has changed the status of the database for people ordering the trial. The wording is new (at least I hadn't seen it before).

Ahhh, ze plot zickens!

(NB: I am handling getting broadband for my neighbour. I can't get it because I have home highway.)

Apparently BT engineers will not visit each trial installation before the line goes live. I called NDO, and they told me that the line will go live on June 1. If it doesn't work, then I am to log a fault with NDO. They will contact BT, who may or may not do something.

One upshot is that we must purchase filters, only to have them become waste if the solution is to install the faceplate.

What BT appears to be doing is to sign up all comers, then wait for something to go wrong. How this strategy maps to a controlled experiment is a mystery. In addition, I don't see how this process is furthering BT's ambition to see how the infamous 'third wire' affects an installation.

Are BT visiting some trial members? Does anyone know how they are choosing which folk get faceplates and which don't?

A BT engineer came out yesterday to check out why our BB connection doesn't work. I wasn't here but according to my neighbor, the engineer's diagnosis was "we are 7.5 km from the exchange, using wire that isn't the best. There was no way to make it work." Oh well...

*EXCEPT*

He then said that BT didn't want our area in Loughton to be permanently cut off, so BT would "run a new cable" that would lower the length to under 5 km! I don't know exactly what "run a new cable" means, other than what it says.

Today BT called to say that the 'new cabling' would be complete in a few days. They made an appointment to come back out to the house on 15 June to test the installation. They expect it to work.

Is it possible that BT are really installing new cable? How can they do it so quickly? Do BT ever install cabinet-located ADSL equipment, as opposed to exchange-located ADSL? [NO] Cabinet-located equipment would certainly solve the problem, but such equipment isn't free.

Putting aside the question of what BT are doing, it appears that BT are serious about making this 'trial' work even if it means shortening the cable run from the exchange to the customer. I have been critical of BT in the past, and undoubtedly will be so again, but what they are doing for us has impressed me.

Yesterday BT came by, worked for over an hour, and in the end announced that it was not possible to provide broadband to us. There was some mumbling about line loss, distance, and excessive crosstalk.

We have withdrawn from the trial.

The BT guy tried to give us some hope. He said that BT wants to run fibre optic to 'us' (near us? to us? don't know) in the next 12 months, and when that happens we will be happy. Is this an offshoot of the fibre trial, or something else? Don't know. We will see what happens.

Even though the result was negative, I have to say that BT tried. It seems that they tried using different pairs from the exchange to the local box, to see if they could improve the line. They were apparently ready to do major work at the house, had the problem been there. However, after determining that broadband didn't work where the line enters the property, they ran out of options.

I am glad that my neighbour did the experimenting and that I held onto my home highway installation.

Good luck to the rest of the trialists. Enjoy your connections. Don't mind me, I will sit in the dark...

I'm a Miserable NDO/BT/ADSL MK Trial Customer.

[Yes, that's me: but hey, having personally risked my neck climbing up a church tower and helping to install the first wireless broadband relay point for the Milton Keynes schools network many years ago, I figure I'm entitled to feel a little sore about now apparently being the LAST person in the entire UK to receive a broadband connection... read my open letter below].

5th July 2004 From: Marc Eisenstadt To: NDO Customer Support [yes, just emailed this, posting publicly for reasons you'll see]

SUMMARY: still not connected; no one 'owns' my problem; I can't talk to BT, yet a trivial callout would solve it

DETAILS:

NDO, Customer Ref xxxxxxx, BT telephone number xxxxx xxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam: I'm a patient but very unhappy customer, STILL UNCONNECTED after signing up for the Milton Keynes 'Extended Reach Broadband Trial' beginning 1st June 2004.

I would say that the core of the problem is (a) lack of 'ownership' of my problem (I can only deal with NDO, yet NDO is not the bottleneck, as far as I can tell, and (b) *EVERY DIALOGUE STEP CAN TAKE A FEW DAYS*, which can get totally insane. My situation is *STILL* unresolved, somewhat remarkabley, and, to be fair, I need to point out that I got off to a very slow start (having been away for the first few weeks of June!!). So here goes...

NOTE 1: *IF* you have the patience to read the saga that follows, it will be blindingly obvious that the entire sequence from 20th June to 5th July could all have been resolved instantly, while I was on the line!!!!!

NOTE 2: The assertion by the NDO Tech Support that "Well, we *COULD* get a BT engineer to come out immediately, but be warned...if the problem is your fault, they'll charge you 60 pounds." is, in my opinion, outrageous, if not outright blackmail. (and certainly outside the spirit of the MK broadband extended reach trial)

NOTE 3: I have done the dialogue to the best of my recollection, just now... the dates are accurate, but there were actually MORE calls than listed below, sometimes serveral per day, and sometimes involving iterations between customer services and tech support, each asserting that it was the others' problem.

JUNE 1-17th I was away/engaged, couldn't really test setup that NDO had shipped (Binatone ADSL 2000 modem).

1. June 20th

I phone NDO Tech Support to say, 'My ADSL setup doesn't work: the diagnostic test shows 'ADSL Synch fail' [p.s. I'm pretty damn good with these setups, and am reasonably confident I had everything setup/tested fine... but... read on...]

NDO Tech support: "Do you have it plugged in through an ADSL filter"?" ME: "No, none was shipped with the box" [duh... I knew about this, but it's remarkably subtle in the documentation... seems to apply only to extra phones plugged in, which I wasn't worrying about, just testing the pure modem on its own]

NDO: "This is crucial" ME: "But ALL of my sockets are empty; everything is unplugged. Is it really still necessary?" NDO: "Yes" ME: "OK, I'll pop round to PC World and buy one"

2. June 22nd ME: "I got the filter, it still doesn't work" NDO: "ok, we'll pass this on to BT, to test your line"

3. June 23rd ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT"

4. June 24th ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT"

5. June 25th ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT"

6. June 28th: NDO: "We've heard from BT: your line tests fine as far as they're concerned; you need to re-test with all other phone sockets empty, and (a) with the ADSL modem plugged directly into the line without the filter, and (b) again with the ADSL plugged in via the filter

ME: "This is where I started: there are NO other sockets being used, as I only use one anyway for my cordless phone, and I ran it initially with no filter, and again with a filter, without luck"

NDO: "But BT reckon you need to absolutely double-check all of this to be sure you've run a clean test" ME: "OK, I'll give it a whirl, and get back to you in 10 minutes.

7. June 28th ME: "I've re-run all the tests, double-checked that all sockets are devoid of anything: still no luck, regardless of whether the filter is in or not"

NDO: "ok, we'll pass this on to BT... probably they'll have to send an engineer out"

8. June 29th ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT"

[actually logged 3 calls to/from me on June 29th... so my exact sequence may be off by a day or so, but you get the idea]

9. June 30th ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT"

10. July 1st ME: "any news?" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT" ME: "could you read me back the log of which dates we've been discussing my problems?" NDO: "June 20, 22, 25, 28 (twice), 29 (3 calls), 30 (twice), and today, July 1st" ME: "doesn't this seem like a lot of calls? why can't I get someone out... can't this be escalated/expedited?" NDO: "Well, BT really needs to make 100% percent certain that this is not a problem at the customer end, and that everything has been tried."

ME: "I'm very certain I've tried everything. Can't this be escalated/expedited? NDO: "Well, we *COULD* get a BT engineer to come out immediately, but be warned...if the problem is your fault, they'll charge you 60 pounds." **********

ME: "Yes, please... bring em on!" NDO: "OK, which dates would you prefer" ME: "Monday 5th July AM or Tuesday 6th July PM, please" NDO: "OK, we'll pass that on to BT and you should hear back directly from an engineer" ME: "Many thanks!"

11. July 5th: 9:47 am

ME: "any news? I'm waiting at home for a BT engineer" NDO: "Still waiting to hear from BT" ME: "but I'm waiting at home- would you mind getting touch with them?" NDO: "We'll call them, and phone you straight back"

12. July 5th: 11:20am

ME: "The chap who was going to phone me straight back never phoned" NDO: "BT kept him waiting for 20 minutes, so he had to give up. Hmm... looks like BT have cleared the log, which they shouldn't have done" ME: "Cleared the log? What does that mean?" NDO: "That it's either resolved or no response" ME: "This is crazy. Can we escalate this and get it dealt with." NDO: "I'll phone them back now and get back to you within 30 minutes."

--------

That's the latest up-to-date report... comments/thoughts/fixes, and more importantly a solution to my problem, will be most welcome. I'm BCCing my colleagues at BT, rather unusually for me, to escalate this 'up the chain' as a matter of urgency.

All the best, and thanks for your attention.

Marc, Loughton