Milton Keynes Broadband Action Group

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Monday 29th March 2004 

Should we focus on lobbying for higher speed broadband?

I throw the following email to the informal email list:

Should the group be focusing more on high speed broadband? That is serious speeds of 2Mbps and beyond?

1, A straw poll in the pub at last Thursday's session was "no, 512kbps is fast enough."

2, The chair at the Broadband Workshop pointed a finger at the "citizens" for not pushing for better products; and essentially looking for the best price all the time.

3, Today I receive the following from a friend doing A level Film and Media studies:

"I have recently seen an American student's adaptation of a Star Wars film. It's amazing! It can been seen at www.crewoftwo.com  (It was made by 2 people) it's all blue screened, and I'd be very interested in trying something like it out...
I am just curious as to what programs to use; if it's worth investing time and money in; etc..."

It took 20 minutes for me to download the 40MB video clip at 512kbps."

Should the group be focusing more on high speed broadband? What do you think?

Here's some replies...

I do not think that campaigning for 2MB would be an issue. It's all down to BT and line loss and distance. Until they get that sorted out, many of us cannot get the 1 MB or 2MB services.

It's all down to distance: that’s our next issue.

Richard, Group Secretary

 
Let's get 512kbps first!

Mark

 
I work from home at least 50% of the time, via a VPN connection onto the office network. The 512 service meets most of my needs at the moment and is fast enough. Occasionally I do need to download very large files and then a faster link would be nice.

I'm not a big games player, so I'm not graphics intensive, although something like movies on-demand would appeal in the future. We do also use webcam with ip phone to talk to friends and family overseas, which is cheaper than intnl call rates. This would benefit from a fast connection, although it's not a priority right now because usually the person at the other end is slower than 512K.

My own opinion is that 512 is probably good enough for most people today, but then as we all know technology moves on and the services that may be on offer in 2/3 years time may well demand higher bandwidth. Certainly if MK is to live up to its High Tech image, then we should be thinking about this ahead of time, but still considering that some group members will still be happy to get a 512 link to start with.

Regards,

Steve
Happy (for now) Monkston resident
 
BT advertise 1MB connection, yet it is unavailable in Walton Park.
My view is that BT should at least provide 1MB.

Ross
 
I agree with Steve.

We have many 'customers' who are extremely angry at the lack of Broadband, and the complete lack of action from the local Council (and other bodies) to tackle this issue five years ago. In 2004, everyone should have Broadband.

We all want lots of bandwidth, but at this point in time, many servers will not have connectivity that can provide huge download speeds for everyone, therefore there is little point. From a technical point of view, we must always look to the future, remaining realistic.

On Wednesday, at the Council's Broadband Workshop, I noticed that the Oakgrove presentation was very much a fairytale, and I rather hope that they will re-think the ideas. As far as I could tell, the Oakgrove plans for 10Mbs to every house were expensive, unworkable in today's world, and rather like someone had sold them an idea that cannot be delivered. English Partnerships needs to focus on providing decent and sensible connectivity, that actually works, with choice for the consumer, and not another NTL cable style problem in years to come.

Our aim is to deliver something better than smoke signals to the residents of Milton Keynes. Not a fairytale that cannot be delivered this side of 2010.

Let's get the majority on Broadband, and then worry about huge connections (which I for one, would not pay for at this point in time).

John, Press Secretary
 
512 is fine for me at the moment.
Perhaps when everybody has got that, we could push for more?

Margaret

 
For e-mail true 512K is ample usually. For downloading large media files then 1M to 2M is better.

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be at the recent workshop. I have been travelling lots and lots recently. Just two points of interest...

1) Munich airport, Brussels, Oslo, Stockholm but not Heathrow all have high speed wireless LAN access. All you do is energise the WLAN. Open an internet browser. Pay up 5 Euros for 1 hour and then engage VPN. Voila!

2) Had I been at the workshop I would have had to correct the finger pointer that not all of us are citizens. Some of us are residents. Often local council officials need a slap across the face to remind them that we have departed the beer and sandwiches culture of seedy 70s socialism.

Best regards,

Dave (Resident of Middleton and worried Wireless Broadbander - when will the scheme be switched off?)
 
Whilst I'm a happy wireless trialist, I can't get even 512k BB from BT. So just in case the wireless trial doesn't get rolled out commercially, my personal priority remains to campaign for a basic 512k BT service for the whole of MK. (In fact, even assuming I could get it, I probably wouldn't want anything faster than 512k just yet).


NEVERTHELESS... I think it's a *superb* idea to broaden the campaign's remit and start to lobby for faster access. We wouldn't have to change our policy or anything, we'd just widen our demands! The objective of the campaign, instead of "BB for the whole of MK", would become "BB for the whole of MK, and at WHATEVER speed is available from BT, NTL and others in their standard offerings".

At a local level the specific campaign objectives would, initially, be different - e.g. "512k for Shenley Lodge" but "1M for Monkston". And as soon as Shenley Lodge got its 512k then we'd up the stakes to "1M for Shenley Lodge". This might actually prompt BT to sort out the areas PROPERLY at the first hit, knowing that any lash-up solution won't make us go away!

I've often pondered the fact that, assuming we succeed in our current objective, membership of the group will at some point start to decline, eventually to zero, as we all get BB. The challenge will be for the last handful of members (i.e. those whom BT leave languishing at the end of the longest, thinnest lines) to sustain the momentum and win the fight.

I certainly don't believe that we should keep the group going just for the sake of it - we'd quickly become a nerdy weekly drinking club - but if we were to broaden the remit as suggested, we would maintain a useful 'critical mass' for longer, would ultimately achieve a bigger thing, and moreover we would retain Nick's drive and determination even though he has his own BB sorted!

Let's go for it.

Neil [Shenley Lodge Deputy]
 
My 2 cents says yes we should be looking at high speed broadband.

If they (BT) are going to commit to improving our lot then we need to make sure that

(a) they have something to charge us for and bring the money back in, and

(b) that what we get is sufficiently advanced that it remains competitive in the near term.

Take a look at the high speed broadband services in places like Sweden, Japan etc. That's where we should be. Home workers often move large files, more and more content is streamed multimedia and more and more software bugs/improvements are rolled out over the net. Net meetings, video conferencing, it is all there - 512kbps is survivable, just with this technology, but 2+Mbps is way better and

I'd be happy to pay for it. Then again I'm on ISDN, so even 512MB in the short term would be nice :(

Paul

 
Yes and no....

Realistically I think BT SHOULD be looking at making sure the infrastructure they provide is going to be capable of providing such speeds. We don't want to be resurrecting the campaign in 5 years time because whilst the rest of the country sits on 10MB lines, good old MK is stuck on 512... (ok, it's a bit of a dream I know!)

Jeff
 
I think we should be taking more heed of the provocative facilitator at the meeting a week or so ago. He said that it is in part our fault, as customers, for being so easily satisfied, that is the reason why BT etc are merely aiming to get such low-capacity “Broadband” rolled out.

On behalf of the population at large, I reckon we ought to be raising the stakes a bit – at some carefully chosen time, of course. Or else the suppliers will conclude that there is not, and potentially never will be, any substantial demand for more bandwidth.

Perhaps I wouldn’t (yet) pay for 2 Mbps – but before we’re ready for it, apps will run as ASP services, streaming video will be available, my colleagues will be expecting instant responses to 20Mb data files rather than the 3Mb ones they currently lob around as if everyone was on the office LAN, and more and more conference calls will expect video as well as voice.

Come the day that 512 gets to this end of MK10, I’d hate to find that all the IT jobs have gone to another country or another city, because they are equipped with 2 Mbps (or ten or twenty), and all we’ve got is the half-meg we asked for!

John
 
I have to say that I agree with you John. I my humble opinion BT will provide the lowest it feels is acceptable to pressure groups - BT is a business and it costs less.

I think that we should ask for more than 'just' MK coverage at present levels. Give BT a higher target and we are also more likely to get MK coverage as a whole, as BT strives to deliver the higher target.

Also, it seems to me that as MK is part of an expansion area there will be a high level of govt. agency pressure on BT to provide at least 512. So why not up the ante a little. Aim 1 = BB for MK. Aim 2 - 512+ for MK.

There are all sorts of arguments for

Regards,

Ross
 

My Inbox

In last week's presentation at the Council's Broadband Workshop I wittered on about the impact of not having Broadband and house purchases. It is apposite that I receive the following emails:

I stumbled across your website whilst searching for Kilwinning Drive, Monkston as I'm possibly going to be moving there.

As a current ADSL user in Emerson Valley, I'd want to continue this in Monkston, is this now a possibility ? Also would you recommend the area?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Cheers,

Kevin

[Kilwinning Drive is fine. Copper cable went in last year. Monkston_migration.htm]

 
Do you know of anyone with broadband in Monkston, specifically Kilwinning Drive?

Ash

[Yes. See Monkston_migration.htm]

 
I am planning on moving to Tattenhoe, do you know if there is Broadband access there?
 
Many thanks,
 
David

[There are no members in Tattenhoe. This area is a safe bet. The area is served by the telephone exchange in Emerson Valley, the neighbouring estate.]

I also receive...

I heard your presentation at the Broadband workshop at MKC last week but had to leave to go to another meeting shortly after you finished.

I am a seasoned campaigner and at work have dealt similar problems for many years - going back to when BT said I could not get ISDN to Crownhill as it was too far away from the Stony exchange. But when the (then) magic word Mercury was mentioned BT managed to re-route cables. We have moved on then, through an very poor ntl service and now in our fourth year of a connection from Kingston (recently changed to 2Mb from 256kb at little extra cost).

I'm keen to see better provision across MK and am keen to promote things. I'm happy to cover something in our next Town Council newsletter - but as I say I suspect most of our area could get broadband if they wished.

Some further thoughts/comments:

I'm very sceptical of the worth of the current wireless trail - particularly as it involved ntl

It was disappointing that Kingston were not involved in the broadband workshop - albeit they concentrate on the business market they have an excellent network around most of MK.

20% of the land mass of MK is in the "urban area" - i.e. 80% is rural.
01908 covers areas outside MK - particularly Deanshanger, Old Stratford and Cosgrove where there certainly have problems MK includes areas such as Olney which are on 01234.

I think there is some merit in an "urban" community (metro?) broadband - in an ideal situation I'd like to be able to "cable Wolverton & Greenleys" for community broadband! But of course we would - ideally - need to get funding to get this off the ground.

On one of your pages you have various bits about ntl:
1. The cable TV system in MK was in fact a BT run system - although perhaps state of the art when installed many years ago it is not now and given that it was a BT system it is not surprising that it is not available for telephone over cable.

2. The fact ntl now run the cable in MK is only because BT were forced to sell off there cable interest in MK and Westminster (I believe on a 99 year lease) as a result of their wish to get involved in multi-media.

3. I am sure there is nothing stopping ntl "digging up the road" if they wished to do so - far from it in fact. As a utility there can more or less do what they want!

4. ntl do not want to invest in replacing the current analogue cable system with a modern digital system. It is of note that ntl have largely been created by merging of existing cable operations rather then actually installing new cable networks themselves.

5. The BT (now ntl) cable TV system only ever reached the new estates of MK - so it never for example got to places like Wolverton.

Regards

Mike

Councillor Mike Galloway
Chair, Wolverton & Greenleys Town Council

Wolverton - A Beacon Town for community consultation and partnership working Wolverton Unlimited - Be a piece of Wolverton's Bigger Picture - www.WolvertonUnlimited.com
 

Just to let you know, I've just moved from Walnut Tree, Yep the big red blob! MK7 7NQ to MK15 9DQ.

I had ADSL 512kb at Walnut Tree yet I cannot get it here in Willen Park and line of sight it's so far shorter to the exchange!!!

What the hell are they thinking of?
I'm willing to pay up to £2k PA for 1MB download. Any ideas?

Cheers
Jason

[BT are due to make an announcement soon. (2 weeks) I understand that they are planning on some upgrade work in the area. We'll have to wait for their announcement

Enroll with the NTL pilot http://www.mkweb.co.uk/broadband/]

 
Thought I would let you have an update on the ntl trial. ntl were on Crownhill today checking line of sight for me and as I was around (having got back from Malta at 3am) I had a chat and he confirmed that we do have sight of Bow Brickhill but not Linford Wood (from the junction of Cruickshank Grove and Robeson Place).

Transmitter should be up in the next two or three weeks and they'll be in touch for the install.

Regards
Steve
 

I live in Stanbrook Place on Monkston and have been taking a look at the Broadband Action Group website.

I did take a look at the website about 6 months ago and an trying to work out if we are getting any nearer to getting broadband. If you can give the latest status and let me know what I can do to help that’d be great.

Dylan

[Yes Stanbrook Place is fine. See Monkston_migration.htm]

 
It may have been a good meeting. What happened.???

Brian

[The council will be doing the write up. I'll advise everyone as soon as it is published. Keep an eye on this page.]

 

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